GERARD DACHÉ:  Can you guys hear me?

LORI SOUZA:  I can hear you.

>>  Yep, I can hear you.

>>  Can the colleagues online hear us well?

GERARD DACHÉ:  Great.

>>  And you can also see us, okay?

GERARD DACHÉ:  Yeah, we can see the panel up front.

MODERATOR:  Perfect.  Okay.  I believe we are going to start now on the dot.

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening.  For those of you who are connecting from overseas.  My name is Benedict audia and I am a partner at DLA piper for those of you who don't know, it's one of the largest law firms in the world.  And ideally piper and I share the develop development practice.  I'm paced in New York City.  I actually consider myself more of a UN colleague because I just left the UN in December of last year.  So, it's very nice to be surrounded by old UN colleagues as well as old and new friends.  It is a pleasure to moderate today's panel on the maturity model to support trust in blockchain solutions.

I am joined by a number of colleagues here.  I am going to introduce them and then I will give them the floor so they can talk a little bit about themselves.  Dino Dell'Accio.  Dean thank you very much.  My name is Dino Dell'Accio, I'm the chief information officer of the United Nations joint pension fund and also co‑chair of the Dynamic Coalition on blockchain assurance and standardization here at the IGF.

>>  I name is Eugene more Delegate of and I'm a member of the Government Blockchain Association representing a number of developer companies, including governance, GOSH central bank digital currencies, blocksis, undisputable elections, devote, and blockchain‑based security card Everax.  I'm very pleased to be here.  Thank you.

>>  Hi, my name is Michael Hinson.  I am the Chair of the intellectual property Working Group of the Government Blockchain Association.  I'm also a partner at the law firm of Perkins Coohey, and I work in their blockchain and fintech practice group.

>>  And my name is Shawna Hoffman and I'm the president of guardrail technologies and we are a Jen rative AI company.

MODERATOR:  Thank you.  I would like to ask the colleagues who are online to also introduce themselves.  Gerard, would you like to start?

GERARD DACHÉ:  Certainly.  My name is Gerard Dache, I'm the executive director of the blockchain association, also cochain with blockchain assurance and standardization and it's a pleasure to be here, thank you.

MODERATOR:  Thank you, Gerard.  Paul, are you online with us?

PAUL F. DOWDING:  I don't know why my name is showing up as jer add.  But I'm Paul Dowding and protocol called TapestryX.  I'm been an active member of the GBA and heading up the banking and finance Working Group.  Also work with Gerard and many of my colleagues here on the blockchain maturity standard and also the banking finance supplement.

MODERATOR:  Thank you.  Amelia, are you also there?  You don't hear.  Lori, are you there with us?

LORI SOUZA:  Yes, hi there.  So, thank you very much for inviting us.  My name is Lori Sousa, I am a member of the Government Blockchain Association and also part of the Working Group for the blockchain maturity model.  And the assessor and consultant.  We are putting together the blockchain maturity model assessment.  And very happy to be here.

Oh also member of the standards and certifications committee and land titling and digital asset management.  So, thank you for having us.

MODERATOR:  Thank you, lore.  Priya, are you there?  You Alejandro, are you there?

Okay.  I think I'm just going to start with a few questions.  Dino, why don't you talk to us about the genesis of the model and how it provides trust?

DINO CATALDO DELL'ACCIO:  Thank you.  So, the genesis of the blockchain maturity model was born from an idea of the President, Gerard Dache, who introduced himself a few seconds ago of the Government Blockchain Association.

And the idea was given the relative novelty of blockchain technologies, especially governments that do not have adequate experience and you skills in their team to assess, appreciate, evaluate the reliance of blockchain solution or even the ability to develop a blockchain solution in‑house.

So as a result of that, rather than trying to establish from the beginning strict standards or requirement for certification, the idea was to develop maturity model that would enable an organisation to assess the level of maturity of blockchain solution and also at the same time determine what could be the potential evolution of the solution itself.

So, bringing together subject matter experts from different sectors of industry, such as finance and banking, such as legal, such as voting, digital identity, supply chain, we created a group that together coauthored the blockchain maturity model, which is a model that is technologically agnostic, meaning that it can be applied to any platform, to any solution that supports and provide blockchain services.  By the same time allows an organisation, through 11 domains, and through five levels of maturity to assess and determine what is the specific status, if you will, as enabled fundamentally to take a snapshot of a blockchain and, therefore, determine whether more controls are required, vis‑a‑vis the strategic goals and the ultimate objective of an organisation.

MODERATOR:  Thank you, Dino.  June, can you talk to us a bit more about what a BMM assessment entails?

>>  Eugene:  Yes.  So, it is very important to understand the pain points that the users of the model eventually will be able to address with.

And that is, there is a variety of Private Sector solutions that are being put forward today.  And people claim that they resolve a particular aspect or a particular issue.

But most government officials and users are not very technically advanced to be able to determine themselves whether they can rely on certain claims that are being put forward.

So BMM has been designed as a mechanism, as a tool, to help such people understand what their reality is, where they can turn to in order to reduce the risk that they're facing by inviting a particular blockchain solution into their everyday life to solve their everyday problems.

So a group of experts, a group of assessors behind BMM is exactly trying to help those officials to understand, to help them understand where they can rely on, to help them really solve the issue that they're solving with minimizing their risk.

So the idea was to assemble representatives of all needed aspects which relate to a particular blockchain solution so they can spend some quality time analyzing what's being proposed from a variety of perspectives, as dean an mentioned a minute ago.

There are all kinds of angles that one has to look at in order to assist and advise a user on the proper use of a blockchain.  So the role of this group is to help.

MODERATOR:  Thank you.  Mike, why should the company go through an assessment?

>>  Mike:  And it's kind of building upon what Eugene just said.  You know the underlying technology behind blockchains have been around for a very long time.  But blockchain itself is relatively new.  And so there's a lot of education that needs to go on for people to really understand how a blockchain architecture works.

So you have a lot of blockchain solutions that have been out there that help certain aspects.  They don't all live up to what they say they're going to be.  And so we think it's important that the public and the stakeholders that are involved really understand the robustness much a certain solution.

So you're going to have the developers, the users, potential company that might need some capital investment.  So, these stakeholders need to understand, you know, how solid is this blockchain?

So people have alluded to this we've created 11 criteria when you're talking about is it scalable?  Sit really decentralized?  Does it ensure privacy?  What happens nun for seen eventualities?  Is it still going to be up and running?  These are important things that a blockchain solution must have.  And all these stakeholders have a vested interest in that.

So we have a rating that gives them an objective perspective on just that.

MODERATOR:  I'm going to ask Shawna a question, but then I would like to leave the floor to the colleagues online.  Shawna, can you talk to us about the supplements that are being created, especially those focusing on artificial intelligence.

>>  Shawna:  Thank you.  It's really important as we look at the blockchain maturity model to start to look at the other technologies that really are part of the ecosystem that blockchain works with.

And one of those is artificial intelligence.  And there have been a lot of challenges that we have been addressing with artificial intelligence, especially now that the technology has been provided for free to many across the world.  I mean there were billions of users on of course chat GFT and other programmes.  And the world has really seen the power of solutions.  Up unfortunately, so have people with we really never wanted to have this powerful solutions in their hands.  There is malicious use we have seen.  Privacy concerns.  There is bias and discrimination, especially when it comes to the data in and the data out, economic disruption at various levels.  And then of course those quality control changes.

So as we have been building out the AI, what we're calling the AI BMM.  Blockchain security model short for that, organizations can implement, maintain, and couldn'tly improve their AI solutions through this model and demonstrate that they can be trusted.

Now, I am a big believer ‑‑ and I don't know if anyone caught our last panel ‑‑ in the combination of artificial intelligence and blockchain and being extremely powerful.

What it allows us to do, blockchain originally was for traceability and transparency.  And AI really needs that partner.  It needs a marriage with a system that has a ledger can that provide that transparent barrency and traceability.

One of the concerns with AI, of course, has always been the black box.  Where did the data come from?  We don't know.  I mean there's a lot of lawsuits trying to uncover what that is.  But 17 trillion ‑‑ what was it 17 terabytes of data, I believe is it was, is what chat GPT was trained on?  What were the 17?  Is it inclusive of all of us around the world?

You know, we heard yesterday in one of the sessions 2.6 billion people aren't even using the Internet.  And there's a big push on Internet for all.  Those 2.6 billion people are not, their data is not in any of our systems right now.

So we have AI being trained on only what, you know, a very small portion of the world, we're missing a lot of people.

And so as we start to build out this AI BMM, we'd love your support.  I see everyone in the room shaking your heads being concerned.  AI standards are extremely important.  You know, we can transform this world in remarkable ways and make sure that everyone is included.

MODERATOR:  Thank you, Shawna.

Lori, can you still hear us?

LORI SOUZA:  Hello, how are you?

MODERATOR:  Very well.

LORI SOUZA:  Thank you so much for the answer there, Shawna.  That was ‑‑ that's amazing insight.

And as we mature the blockchain maturity model, we're looking at industry‑specific BMM professionals and assessors and with the AI supplement, it's going to be very important to rate some blockchain solution providers with that expertise in mind.

So, I'm going to ask Gerard, then, Gerard, would you be able to tell our listeners why is blockchain so important for the next generation on the Web?  Besides the AI concerns.

GERARD DACHÉ:  Right.  I think one of the biggest challenges the world is facing right now ‑‑ and AI is basically just demonstrating it, right, but it's trust.  If we look at our elections and, you know, all the drama that comes right at that, the losers don't trust that they actually lost, right.  If we look at the banking financial crisis we had, bank with too big to fail, you think all of that drama we had is because we don't trust.  We've lost trust in health care.  We don't trust our doctors.  Just look what happened with COVID, right, everything became politicized.  And we look at news, we look at deep fakes.  The whole world if you think about the UN SDG as it relates to peace and justice and strong institutions, if lose trust, societies break down, right.  And blockchain is such an important component of that.

However, here's the problem.  Just like with the Internet bubble, when that new technology came out, everybody went racing to the technology, but they never really took care of the fundamentals.

So just like, well, if you look at blockchain from 2017 to 2022, 75 percent of those blockchain projects failed.  Because people were racing towards the hype, right, and they were going to put everything on blockchain.  I will put haircuts on blockchain.  Everything was blockchain, blockchain, blockchain.  But they lacked the maturity of some of these industries, like the bank and financial services industry that have been around for hundreds of years, right.  Paul can speak to that about the difference between these industries that are mature and these industries that are chasing after the hype and everybody's trying to make a quick buck.  And investors are excited.  And tons of money gets thrown at it and it all collapses.

So blockchain, I believe sone of those transformational technologies of our time because just like the Internet, the Internet was about the peer to peer movement of information.  I could take something, copy it, give it to you.  Now you have a copy, I have a copy, we can communicate, great.

Blockchain is more about the peer to peer movement of value.  That's why I can send you cryptocurrency now you have it and I don't have it anymore.  This is a tremendously transformative, it comes at a time when there's a fundamental loss of truss in the society and the blockchain maturity model I think is going to keep this thing from going off the rails.

Sorry that was long‑winded but that's why I think this is important.

LORI SOUZA:  That's very important.  Just like you said, you said in the Web 2 technology right now, you send me a copy, I send somebody else a copy, so we have several copies of the same document.  But with blockchain, the solution is that we have one place of storage where all of us can access the same document.  We don't need to send that document around.

And so, but, that document's not centralized.  So, Paul, would you be able to explain how that document now with blockchain technology solves the problem of, let's say, trust and being the correct document in blockchain rather than storing any of our copies up in the cloud or all of us storing our copies up in the cloud.

PAUL F. DOWDING:  Sure, sure, I would like to clarify something, despite my looks, I haven't been involved in the banking and finance industry for hundreds of years.  But I can an test to some of the more recent events.

The mistake that is often made with blockchain is often people say the word it's immutable.  It really is mutable.  It's very hard to corrupt but it's really a corrupt evident system.  It's not going to guarantee correctness or, you know, it can ensure some credibility and it can create some control to direct and to prove things.

But when you've got a record that is corrupt evident, you've got an audit and transparency of what has been done and has been said.  It's not that you can guarantee to say the document is actually the right document, but you can find out whether it is or it isn't based upon the history.  And that's really gives you that order and transparency.  And rather than being dependent on central authorities or other intermediaries, you pushed the control to the edge where the actual instigators within a network are in control of their data and therefore they can see what it's doing and how it can be interpreted.

And that's not just for the sake of Shawna.  We have to worry about AI.  But we also have to worry about the 7 or 8 billion of natural intelligence that are attacking these networks, as well.  And that's part of the control and corrupt evident thing that we can create the transparency and orderrability.

LORI SOUZA:  Thank you, Paul.  And I see that we have Amelia that's joined us.  Amelia, are you available to answer a question?  Or can you hear me?

AMELIA GARDNER:  Yes, I am.  Sorry I had some connection issues.  But we got those solved, so.  I'm here now.

LORI SOUZA:  Glad you're here.  Thank you.

So I'm not sure at what point you joined us, but we're, of course, discussing the blockchain maturity model.  Can you tell us maybe industry‑specific that you're involved with when considering the blockchain maturity model.

GERARD DACHÉ:  Lori, you're in a very unique position, so if you could talk about from the role of Government, why and how governments like yours would be interested in the BMM.  He.

AMELIA GARDNER:  That's what I'm going say.  I'm not in industry.  I'm an elected official.  I'm in government.  And we utilize blockchain for several different things in our county.  We utilize it for marriage licenses, in creating certified Department of Justice table documents for marriage certificates as well as voting for overseas and military members and People with Disabilities.

One of the issues that we particularly face in Government is:  When we put out a request for purchasing, oftentimes in Government, because we tend to be a very low‑risk industry, if you will, we'll say things like:  When you reply to this with your sales package, we want 10 years experience in government.  Or we want you to give us the last seven project you worked on in government.

And when you're dealing with an emerging technology like blockchain, there just isn't anyone that has 10 years experience working in government or there isn't anyone with seven government projects that deal with this technology in blockchain.

And so the blockchain maturity model is a way for us to be able to gauge and judge whether a company can do what they say they can do when they done have a decade of experience in that, right.

So as I look forward to looking for providers, I can't use the regular clause of "give me your last seven government projects and give me 10 years experience working in government," what I then have to say is well, give me a third‑party assessment of your product and let me know that it's a viable product.  And the blockchain maturity model does that.

So we can recommend, we want a third‑party assessment of your product and your viability.  And we can recommend that they utilize the blockchain maturity model to do that.

So from a government official standpoint, it really is a good way for us to judge an emerging technology since we can't use our standard processes to do that.

MODERATOR:  Thank you, Amelia.  I was hoping you could introduce yourself because this is what we did at the beginning.

AMELIA GARDNER:  Yeah.  So, as they said my name is Amelia powers Gardner.  I'm usually a county commissioner serving in Utah County, Utah.  A county Forum is like a mayor and a council combined in one.  And our coverage area is about 750,000 people.  And as the Commission Chair, I basically serve as the mayor for my region.

Prior to that, I was the County Clerk auditor for several years, so I ran elections, marriage licenses and budgeting for the county.  And then prior to that, I worked at caterpillar for 12 years as a field service engineer, a product improvement engineer, and in marketing for parts.

MODERATOR:  Thank you amealia.  It was really important to have your perspective as a Government official.  And I couldn't agree more with your remarks about the importance of relying on third‑party assessments, especially in circumstances where goals, as custodians of taxpayers' funds, need to make sure that there is a certain level of oversight and accountant.  And so having that, you know, third‑party validation is super important to protect governments from reputational risks, performance risks, and legal risks, which are usually the kinds of risks that institutions that handle public funds have to be aware of and need to mitigate.

Thanks again, Amelia.

I have a question about digital identity, you know.

So, the goal of digital identity supported by blockchain solutions is to enable SSI, self‑server identity.  Can you tell us how blockchain solutions comply with data protection laws?

>>  Thank you.

DINO CATALDO DELL'ACCIO:  First I would like to share my experience with BMM and digital identity solution.

I think the veil proposition of having nonprofit association that works on this area is actually was able to bring together practitioners.  Like Amelia just said, she first‑hand experience the adoption of a blockchain solution to solve a practical problem in her county, for example, the issuance of marriage certificate, especially I remember her telling her story during the period of COVID when when people were not able to physically access public services.

In my case, my experience is that when I became chief information officer of the UN pension fund, I was presented with a 75 years old problem.  And this was the problem that the pension fund, on a yearly basis, needs to prove that those who are receiving the benefit tpayments rstill alive.  And the uniqueness of the united nation pension fund is that it has 84,000 rateries in 192 countries around the world ‑‑ retirees.

And as you can appreciate, confirming the 84,000 people are still alive, it's quit a challenge.  And also we can appreciate inevitably there could be potential for fraud.

So the way for 75 years that the pension fund addressed this problem was to send a form, a piece of paper using 192 servers around the world asking the beneficiary to sign and return this form as a proof that they are still alive.

Now, aside from the fact that using 192 postal services created a lot of problems, often this piece of paper got lost.  Most frequently they were received with delays.  And of course this had an impact both on the operation of the pension fund as well as on the livelihood of the beneficiary because when the pension fund did not receive this form, after two attempts, they had to stop the payment.

So there was always this level of uncertainty from the beneficiary side of:  Did they receive the form?  Am I going to receive the money next month?  So forth and so on.

So, this issue was presented to me as the only process that within the pension fund of the UN had never been automated.  And the problem was that the pension fund was often questioned by its governing bodies, by its oversight bodies of:  How can you prove that there is no fraud?

And of course proving a negative sim possible.  So, the only way that I could try to address this challenge was to okay, let's prove the positive.

So we worked on designing and implementing an application that uses biometrics, facial recognition with a blockchain, create ag immutable ledger where each step of this process from the initial onboarding to the values payments that are made during the month and through the values instances where people are proving that they are still alive are recorded on this immutable ledger so that we can call so prevent collusion.  So, nobody can say well, someone within the pension fund that went into the system and maybe manipulated the record as Paul Dowding was referring to.  Because the blockchain, even though you may attempt to manipulate the dat athe evidence remains on the general ledger.

So, through this system, in January 2021, we went live.  We deployed this system.  And now 35,000 retirees of the pension fund have an application on their phone that they have downloaded.  They went through an onboarding process where they captured the biometric profile on their phone only.  So, their biometric profile is not served in any server in the united nation and it's not transferred in any way in the united nation.  It remains on their phone after being onboarded by a representative of the pension fund.  So, the beauty is now they can use a phone to confirm for now once a year but the frequency can change at any time, that they are still alive and we have a proof, a tangible proof on the blockchain that this occurred.

Now, going to apologies for even this long background, but I think enabled us to put issue into context.

So when it comes to complying with data privacy, aside from the fact that united nation sincere not subject to national legislation; nonetheless, the united nation tried to align itself to the principle that are adopted by countries around the world in order to make sure that we are consistent with the expectation of what we call the taxpayers of the world to whom we are ultimately accountable through the General Assembly t193 countries that are represented there.

So the point being here is that we are very much aware of, for example, the data privacy principle, the GDDPR, the European Union or others around the world.  They more or less share the same con at the present time of transparency, independence, of verifiability, and many other principles.

And by creating a blockchain in alignment with a concept of self‑solving identity, we created a system where the user is in control of his or her identity because they have the biometric profile on their device.  They are confirming when they are alive or not.  We are not in a position to manipulate or to use or to act on their behalf.

And ultimately, we are not putting any personal identifiable, any PII on the blockchain itself.

So there is a misconception that people think that private data, when talking about digital identity rstored on the blockchain.  That's not the case.  On the blockchain, there are information related to addresses that are connect toed the public keys of each individual that has been created with a digital identity that then are recorded in the blockchain.  But the information itself, date of birth, name, last ‑‑ first name, last name.  Information about the pension detail and never recorded on the blockchain itself.

And in this way, we are avoiding all the concern, all the risk that are identified into privacy laws and regulation.

>>  Do you mind if I just.

MODERATOR:  I was going to ask you the next question.  You're reading my mind.

>>  Mike.  I don't know if it's the same question but I suspect, Dino, you can comment on this.  The fact that there's a blockchain under the hood, they are not aware of it and understand the underlying architecture.  There are a lot that are utilizing blockchain technology that the average consumer doesn't know that's running behind the scenes.  Maybe you can comment about that with the pension fund.

DINO CATALDO DELL'ACCIO:  Yes, absolutely.  And indeed, as you're alluding to, the beauty of process of this nature that are transparent to the end user.

And actually what we encountered at the very beginning when we went live with the application is that people were very concerned, first of all because they heard the term biometrics.

Second of all because they heard the term blockchain.  And automatically they start thinking about cryptocurrency, about Bitcoin, about proof of work, about the exploitation of natural resources because as you read from the news, Bitcoin and the proof of work mechanism that create and consume a lot of energy.

So we had to engage in a campaign to actually explain and to reassure our end user that they did not need to worry because we were using blockchain for different purpose.  The blockchain is different at bit couldn't, although it's the technology that gets adopted.  And therefore there was a process of if you will awareness in education but at the same time process the assurance that I did not need to know the nitty‑gritty detail.  Hence the need for BPM or basic data give them that level of trust or assurance.

MODERATOR:  Shawna.

>>  Shawna:  What you've described is probably one of the best use cases I've ever heard for AI and blockchain and how they work together.  Because only with blockchain can you mask the individual's information.  And it doesn't have to go into the blockchain.  So, it doesn't go into the ledger, but AI can be used to provide facial recognition, some really powerful, powerful components.  That all stays at the end user.  So, I'm still in control of my data, but what happens is blockchain can actually be the long for that data and can provide, of course, those tokens.  We won't get into those details, but it's a really great combination use case that you're doing.  Awesome.

MODERATOR:  Eugene?

>>  Gene:  And then to take this one step further, let's talk about the art of the possible.  What can be coming next.

So if you add to, let's say, biometric identification that is used by Dino's group right now, if you add to that a blockchain‑based security card and a combination of other identification factors and you uniquely identify an individual that, opens a variety of further possibilities.

First and foremost, governance.  How those people can govern the society that they live in.  Not only in the financial applications where receiving their pensions, for example, but also expressing their will in elections, right, which are probably having the need for the most secure environment and for the most safe environment.

We want people to be able to safely express their will.  So, it becomes possible as part of general governance.

Then if you add frequent requirement by con city you things of many countries of true and on imty of the person voting, and you add what's called 0 knowledge technology, which is available today as a result of a number of scientific breakthroughs of the recent years, you can have people express their will in a truly anonymous way, which is incredible.

Then if you add that to the central banks, central banks can interact directly with individuals without any financial intermediaries to allow people to have central accounts with central banks in their country.  And therefore the whole financial industry is going to go through a very serious transformation because of that.  Because, again, the role of intermediaries, intermediaries will be significantly reduced.

So, all of that is coming.  And we should be cognizant and we should be aware of the new recent advances in technology and utilize them.

So the blockchain maturity model allows users to make their steps more confidently with less risk.  And ultimately improving the way we govern ourselves and our societies.  Thank you.

MODERATOR:  I just wanted to follow up on some of the comments that Mike was making earlier and ask you about potential risks in relation to claims and disputes in this area.  What are your thoughts?

>>  It's quite broad.  But we've been talking about all the positive aspects of the model, but if there ever was a claim, what would you think that would focus on and how as an attorney would you advise your client?

>>  Mike.  Well, there's a lot to that.  But let me just tell you some of the issues that we're seeing like in the law firm when it comes to blockchains.  And we talked about this a little bit in our previous session.

You know you want to obviously make sure that the data you have has not been tampered with.  But a lot of what blockchains are doing, they're storing data and then you have AI engines that are coming in like chat GPT that's taking that data and creating new results from it.

That's all sorts of creators of that underlying data that theoretically, you know, they created it and was it faithfully put on the blockchain as Paul was alluding to, you can track the providence and the history of something, but you can't actually confirm the underlying accuracy of the data that was put on there in the first place.

So with blockchain you can at least when it comes to content creation track what is happening and for copyright and authorship you can give attribution for people's works that are being used.

And when it comes to privacy, I have the right to the publicity of my own and my own privacy.  And blockchain can help further their objective because now I can trace my data that was on the blockchain and the extent to which it has been used by somebody, perhaps surreptitiously and I can track it back to my own personal data.

We're seeing a lot in ‑‑ I think there's going to be a lot of lawyers that continue to be productive because of the legal issues that are arising out of blockchain when it comes to some of these issues.

I track just internally within my firm from the patent side, I'm a patent attorney predominantly and I track all the blockchain patents.  You can't patent blockchain itself.  But what a lot of people are doing is the blockchain, AI and IT, I'd add that to this discussion.  And there are so many different use cases.  And we're in an environment that's in many respects very open source and philanthropic in its nature.  But I can assure you there are companies that are investing a lot of money to protect their blockchain solutions because they all want to play in the same sandbox and there will be consolidation in the space.  So, we are just now starting to see patent infringement actions coming out because some of these blockchain‑related patents have, you know, they were filed several years ago.  They've since issued.  And now there are people that are infringing them.  So, I think I've tracked about three or four lawsuits that have just come on patent infringement related to blockchain.

GERARD DACHÉ:  

MODERATOR:  I was about to give you the floor, Gerard.

GERARD DACHÉ:  I want to make sure we cover the topic which is what this panel is about is how can blockchain maturity models being used?  We're covering a lot of really important ground on identity and IP and stuff, but I'd like to take a minute.  And I can share a video.  We have about a minute, minute and a half video on what the BMM is because we've talked about it but I don't think we've really explained what it is.  So, I could show the video or we could take a minute to explain what BMM is.

MODERATOR:  Do you want to share the video from here?

GERARD DACHÉ:  I think I can share it from here.  Let's give that a shot.  If it doesn't work, then we'll just explain it.

But let's give this a shot.

>>  Are you involved in the blockchain and web 3 space?  If so listen to this.  There's this awesome thing called the blockchain maturity model that you need to know about.  It's designed for individuals and organizations to evaluate blockchain solutions by leveraging their expertise in blockchain, web 3 and digital assets.  As the interesting blockchain solution sincere growing among governments, enterprises, investors and donors, they're spending money on various blockchain projects.  But there's a catch.  Just like the Internet bubble, many of these projects end up failing.  So, the challenge here is to find a reliable and trustworthy solution amid all of the overhuman vaporware that's out there.

That's where the BMM comes into play.  It's by the GBA with 500 government offices round the world and focused by the UN Internet Governance Forum blockchain assurance and standardization unfortunately as a way to assess blockchain solutions and achieve two very important goals.  It provides a roadmap for solution developers to create and maintain trustworthy blockchain solutions.  It gives confidence to potential customers and other stakeholders looking to invest in projects.  The BMM already being used by various public and private organizations in different industries.  Now here's the exciting part.  The organizations implementing the BMM need experts to help them with the process.  By joining the GBA, taking the training, and becoming an authorized BLM consultant or assessment team member, you can play a vital role in enhancing the trustworthiness of these solutions.  This not only adds credibility to their projects but it also gives you a chance to earn credentials and income.

If you'd like to learn more, shoot an email to [email protected] or check out the Lynn incomes the description link below.

GERARD DACHÉ:  Let me stop sharing.  We've got a couple people on here that are BMM assessors, that were involved in writing the model.  Paul was involved in writing the model from the very beginning.  So, maybe, Paul, could you explain a little bit about the process and what some of the levels are?  Because I don't think we talked about levels at all.

And Alejandro is a lead assessor, he's an assessor, maybe he could talk a little bit about the assessment process.  Because I think that information is going to be important so people can understand how models could be used to ensure the trustworthiness of blockchain solutions.  Paul?

PAUL F. DOWDING:  The process was, I mean there's a team over 18 months to two years came together to say how do we make this assessment model?  And we honed in the idea that there be elements to be assessed.  And then there'd be layers of maturity.  So, there was a lot of back and forth and debate about what should be a unique element.  But we honed in on the 11 that came out.  I'll quickly go through them.  Distribution, governance, identity, interoperability, performance, privacy, reliability, resilience, security, infrastructure sustainability and synchronization.

And then with those, and just two of those are pretty in the other conversation, infrastructure sustainability, because you don't just want to know that the data's got integrity, but the system will last as long as the life cycle needs it to and it has some resilience to attack or downtime in terms of various notes to the network.  So, those are two elements.

So the group had to work on deciding what those elements were and then choosing their name, which was an interest discussion, and even their definitions.

And then we took those elements to look at the five layers.  And, really , we'll looking at all spectrum of maturity.  We start with level 1, which is an idea, which may be partially documented or partially implemented.  So, there's a sort of statement of intent rather than just something that works.

Level 2 assessments is it's documented.  So, this is a fully documented full requirement spec solution.

The third one is it's validated.  It's a proof of concept.  So, somehow the technologically the design's been proven.

Fourth is that it's actually in production.

And then, fifth, in terms of optimizing which means there's multiple instances or it's been running in various use cases such that it's being developed and enhanced in its future state.

At the moment we're only doing level 1 assessments just to ‑‑ even if people have like what we had production‑ready software, but we went for that level 1 assessment.

And the process of defining what the requirements of those levels for each element, if you think about it that's correct 11 times 5.  So, that is the minimum of 55 discussions.  There are many moreover the two years.

The get it to refine, I think Dino said it earlier, the idea of the BLM is it's applicable for all types of blockchains, public, private, various use cases, applications, otherwise.  And that's what led us to the supplements.  But I'll let Alejandro explain the assessment process.

GERARD DACHÉ:  Alejandro, you have been involved in some assessments and those assessments are very different than inspections and audits.  Would you like to talk about what a BLM assessment is?

ALEJANDRO MANDUJANO:  Hi, guys, I'm Alejandro Mandujano.  I'm the lead of the Mexico chapter and the region for GBA.  I'm certified BMM assessor.

So let me tell you how the presence consists.

One we have the that arized person to start.  We have to make the planning.  In planning, we have to define as Gerard mentioned, a team.  The team is by the lead assessor.  With different members, certified assessors that are specific for the process.

So we have the domain lead, the domain member which is specialized until the main we're talking about we're assessing.

Then we have three different members which are specialized in the domain.  Sorry.  About the part such as Mike.

Then we have the utilizing specialists.  Then we could have a distribution or even someone from the IDTT Working Group.

So we can all start reviewing all the different procedures that the client present to us.

So in a way that as Paul was saying, depending upon the level is the requirements that we must fulfill.  So, we have the first level, which is the initial level, we have to have an idea and things need to be assessed as we have then documented plan and even are mentioned by the client to us.

Then once we have that information, we get team reunions in which we gather all different issues that we discovered in a way that we all cooperate among us.

So, in that process, at the end you have like different approaches that need to be ‑‑ maybe financial with a client.  We have meetings with them, with the client.  And we start with different officials of the company.  And the element with the different issues that we discover.  So, they have to be precise and defined by the client.

So there is something that they have missed.  Instead of saying it's yes or no you're assessed, we define like opportunity.  So, we guide the clients to tell them well you have to do this, you have to do that if you're to comply with the requirements.  And they just get that assessed as homework.  So, they start refinancing and I adjust it.  And at the end we can present, if everything is fine, we can give them a consensus.  We give them a rating.

So from there ‑‑ excuse me.

GERARD DACHÉ:  I'd like to tag on something you said which is very important.  An assessment very different than an audy because one of the things that's a unique attribute with this type of model is it merits the assessed is actually part of the assessment team.  Because it's absolutely important to have a balance of objectivity and insight.  If you take your car to get inspected, right, they can tell you that the brake pads have to be, I don't know what the number is, 3/32 of an inch thick because they've got million of data points that say when it drops below that, the car is unsafe.

Which don't have that with blockchain.  In blockchain, it's still very immature.  So, an assessment, when using this kind of a model sa collaborative process in which we bring industry experts together.  The qualifications are very high.  We bring industry experts together.  And we ‑‑ and they essentially are in partnership with the solution being assessed because our model is that the solution being assessed and the assessors both are combined and join with the objective of maturing and making a solution better.  So, it's very, very different than I think anything that we've ever seen before.  And I'd like to throw it over to Lori.

Lori kanybody pretty much jump on an assessment team?  Or what are the qualifications to be on an assessment team?

And then I'd like to throw it back to Paul to see what value ‑‑ this is one of the questions that I new you were going to ask, anyway, what's the value that comes to an organisation that goes through an assessment?

Lori, why don't you talk about can anybody be on an assessment team?  Or is there some process to go through?

LORI SOUZA:  That's a great lineup, Gerard, of questions, so thank you for handing that one to me.

Yeah, so in order to form a BLM assessment team, the team member needs to go through the training process.  And there's some requirements before an assessor can take place or take part of an assessment.

The first requirement is, of course, well the courses that we have three model an maturity courses that are available and we're developing two more.  But the course is going through a thorough understanding of what are the 11 elements that a wrong chains solutions provider will be rated?  And those 11 elements, then vfive different levels of maturity, let's say.  Maturity ratings.

So we have a level 1 which would be somebody with an idea or startup with very limited ‑‑ very limited, let's say, anything more than the idea and the documentation.

And then we also have the full production level, which is all the way to the other way of the level an.  And so it's a really comprehensive maturity model that blockchain solutions provider would go through.  And we do have a real strong team that's been trained and also trained in how to have an assessment.  And then we have a lead assessor, as well.  And Dino and Paul are two of our lead assessors on the blockchain maturity model team.  As well as Gerard.

So, we do require that training to be done before somebody can actually become an assessor or even a blockchain consultant.

So, again, once somebody takes that training with the GBA, which is also the blockchain assurance coalition, once somebody takes the training and is interested in becoming a blockchain maturity adviser, they can also become a blockchain maturity model consultant.

Now that, consultant is available for a blockchain solutions provider that doesn't have as much knowledge about the assessment.  And so a lot of the solutions providers we're finding do need to have the help of readiness and preparation to take part of an assessment.

GERARD DACHÉ:  Lori, that's an excellent point because this really what please to the UN's SDGs, too, in terms of economic development.

LORI SOUZA:  Yes.

GERARD DACHÉ:  One of the things that's important what Lori just said is there are people all around the world looking for economic opportunity.  And by developing blockchain skills, the nice thing about blockchain is it is global.  So, you could have someone in Cameroon or Kenya developing these skills and providing opportunities because blockchain is everywhere.  It's ubiquitous.  And so if we think about this for an economic development perspective weeks can get dollars globally into a local community because they have these skill sets.  That's not something that we haven't really talked about a lot.

But the other thing that I think is really important to understand is if you're going use a blockchain maturity model, anyone, the BMM, or any other one, you don't have to do it with the Gabe, I'm not aware of other models.  I think we're in front.  But if someone wanted to develop a model is make level 1 easy.  Because I can't tell you how many people have thought that they have arrived.  We have people coming in the door all the time saying "oh we're level 5.  We're going to do this thing just to prove to the world how great we are because we're so great.  By the way, let me tell you all about the PhDs we have on our board and here's some math and white papers."

And as soon as we peel the onion back, what we realise is they don't have the basics, right.  They don't have ‑‑ you know, Paul could share some examples where somebody said "well here's our schematics about our system." they had a lot of really, really cool stuff.  But they just didn't include a blockchain, right.  And they have just forgotten to leave it out.

We would ask people what ‑‑ can you identify what your critical components are and how you monitor the operational status of it?  Crickets.  Deers in headlights.

So, I would say that if somebody is going to use a model to develop trusted solution, they've got to make the entry point easy.  And I am shocked at how immature this industry is.  I'm completely shocked about that.

Paul, can you share just a little bit about what the value that people get from these assessments?  Maybe you can Jenner e size some of the findings ‑‑ Jennery size some of the findings for people who.

LORI SOUZA:  Go to Paul and then Alejandro has a question he would like to ask.

PAUL F. DOWDING:  Yeah this was talked about at the beginning.  Really Eugene made the point.  This is a men's for buyers of blockchain solutions to have a means of measuring or looking at the use cases they're considering.  And, sorry, the solutions they're using.  And their suitability for their use cases.  And I think it also gives a credibility to the solution providers that they've actually gone through this process and reached assessment.

And I think, again, a key thing about confidentiality is we're only, the GBA only publishes that your solution is there and it brings this assessment.  But part of the assessment process is actually to get a full feedback on each of the elements or only supplemental requirements if you're considered those in the use cases.  And that's to you as a solution provider, which then you can share.  So, that's information that's confidential to you but you can now share it with your perspective investors and clients.  And I can say as representing a startup, this is another, you know, arrow in our quiver that is a credibility that we've actually gone through this process and we can talk to the detail and thoroughness and objectivity of the assessment to allow people to understand, you know, we've met the requirements of the other elements.  And that's, I think that's a huge value to the solutions.  But the idea that there's been an independent assessment for the buyers of solution is another, you know, benefit to them.  And those are the two great values.

GERARD DACHÉ:  Alejandro?

ALEJANDRO MANDUJANO:  Yeah jthe to mention that let the people know that we have accomplished quite different things regarding to how we develop the BMM assessments.  We have the advantage of including in the Working Groups competitors in the same domain, or the same industry and the same type of multisolution.

So when we start assessing, one company accepts to be partially assessed by their competitor.  So, we have two of the real module of the market of the domain.  So, we help each other in a way that we can't, instead of being our consume pettors outside in the market, we can help better enable solutions.  So, I think it's one of the very best things we have been doing.  Thanks.

GERARD DACHÉ:  One of the things that's fascinating about this ‑‑ one of the things that's fascinating about this technology, this group is there are three characteristics that I think represent the people in this group.  They're out‑of‑the‑box thinkers.  They're willing to take a risk.  And they're interested in something bigger than themselves.

And when you look at the people that are building blockchain solutions and trying to solve problems that relate to, you know, health care or hunger, poverty, you know, many of these issues, right, economic inclusion, by and large these are really good people.  But there are also scammers out there.

But by creating a culture we can come together, recognizing that the market and the problems are so huge, they're much bigger than any one of us can do, by coming together and working together as a cohesive fabric as a family, bringing competitors together to see how can we work together for the riding tied to lift all ships?  We can create a fabric of people and of technology to solve problems that some of our traditional institution versus struggled with for many years.

And we had recently had one of the chief strategy, I don't remember his exact title.  I think like the chief strategy and innovation person at Oracle.  And so he said that he believes that the BMM is a game knowledger.  Again, we may be the only model right now.  We don't need to be.  We really want to create an inclusive model where if other people want to have models or share models, let's share.  We used the ‑‑ of the organisation because that was there.  But let's get different organizations, different multistakeholder organizations together.  Let's get the IADV that are working on lack chain and let's get these people together, right, so that instead of us all building things in silo, we can create a common family, a common framework of standards.  I think that's what the industry needs.  And the world needs us to mature blockchain because we're not mature yet.  We can't solve all the problems that we want to solve because we don't have our own house in order.  But we've got to get our own house in order so we can actually have the impact globally to make a difference.

With that, I apologize for monopolizing this.  But I really wanted to get those things out there.  Mod.

LORI SOUZA:  That's great.  Paul, would you like to add to that?  Or do you have a question?

PAUL F. DOWDING:  The one thing I was going to a some add to it I think someone made the point earlier.  The Internet made communication pervasive because it was a communication protocol.  But the technology is basically invisible.  It's in the background.  We click and we're all talking on a video link.

Distributed technology and blockchains has a possibility to be a transacting protocol.  Therefore what's going to happen is is the technology will be invisible.  You will be transacting.

So the ability to truly assess the solution by the people that need to know how to do that and also, again, variations on the elements, the performance or otherwise, can help you assess the solution to the use case.  And I think that's a critical thing, as well, because so you've got those two things.  Because it is going to become invisible.  And so the ability to really understand it, because it's a very technical and diverse set of solutions, becomes critical for why the BMM is so important.

GERARD DACHÉ:  And I'd like to hear from Mike because Mike has been involved in the legal aspect and also the digital asset management, a little bit about why that's important.  Dino's been building out the identity management solution.  So, we have about 50 Working Groups working on different aspects.  Shawna has been involved in our autoee stuff.  And it's critically important to understand that all of these different pieces have to be built independently because you have different skill sets.  But they have to be built in an integrated sort of fabric kind of way.  Dino, do you have any thoughts in how the identity management supplement kind of fits into the overall framework?  Because you've been involved pretty close from the very beginning.

DINO CATALDO DELL'ACCIO:  Just a little bit of a context before.  The concept of a supplement is about qualifying the requirement of the blockchain maturity model.

So having a maturity model that is technologically agnostic helps anybody to conduct an assessment of the maturity of a blockchain solution.

However, with a supplement, we try to go beyond that, meaning that we're looking at the specific context of in which industry, in which sector, which problem is a blockchain intended to address?  So, we may have the use of a blockchain to support voting in election.  We may have blockchain that utilize to support supply chain.  We may have blockchain supporting land and titling.

Or we may have identity and management and digital identity.

So, in preparing this supplement, we try to go beyond the core and foundational criteria that can and should be used to assess the maturity of the blockchain by asking specific questions that you only pertains to a specific sector.  What are the risks of using a blockchain in an identity management?  What are the risks of using a blockchain in voting election or in health care records management?

So, the supplement in digital identity has been developed.  It is now almost 90% done.  It will be issued by the end of this year.  I'm speaking as a lead of that Working Group.

And what we realise is that it's not just enough to go and identify the risk.  But because of that level of relative immaturity, about knowledge of blockchain, their functioning, their purpose, their risk and their control, we realise that it also needs to explain the foundational concept of each one of these use cases.

So when we're talking about digital identity, we're talking about self‑sovereign model.  We're talking about selective disclosure.  We're talking about verifiable credential.

So we realise that in order for a team of assessor to appreciate the meaning and the benefit of using a maturity model, we also need to explain what are these foundational concepts that apply specifically to that domain?

So the supplement on digital identity is being built with that approach.  We have an appendix where we're explaining what are these foundational concepts?  Sovereign identity, disclosure, 0 knowledge proof.  And then we have a body of requirement of, of the criteria that pertain, that relate to those foundational concepts so that both the assessment team as well as the team and organisation being an sincered can put all this information into context and understand exactly the what, the why, and the how.  Thank you.

>>  Eugene:  If I may just add some color to that.  So, we remember that Amelia mentioned earlier today that the Government officials kind of want a more safe and secure and verified solutions to be used.  Yet the technology is so new that none of the teams perhaps have the adequate amount of government work or particular contracts that they did for the government.

And on the other hand, the developer teams, they possess the knowledge and the understanding that is brand new in the world.

So, BMM assessment, in my opinion, is very much a two‑way process.  On one hand the government learns from what has become available due to technological breakthroughs in recent years.

At the same time, the solution providerses understand much better what is it that they need to do both in terms of practical abilities and in terms of documentation that is required for their solutions to become more wide spread and find user acceptance in the world.

That's why I think this work on its own is extremely valuable, because this new technology finds its way to its users through a dialogue, through common interests, through sharing the thoughts and ideas and also the requirements of the practical governmental or private industry users.

And it relates to the whole breadth of technologistts that we're talking about here, software supply, chain, to security cards, such as surf by everaxe 2.  And voting solutions by devote.  And to central bank digital currencies issues that Brux has developed.  So, this process is creative.  This process is very challenging and amazing.

So I would encourage all the users to approach Government blockchain association and join the process of developing our common knowledge and our common products.  Thank you.

MODERATOR:  Thank you.  Thank you, Eugene.

Any other questions from the, from those who are connected online?

[Silence.]

You.

LORI SOUZA:  Let's see.  I have a question here for one of our panelists, whoever would like to answer it.  And it is:  Why would ‑‑ why is it important for a blockchain solutions provider to go through this assessment?

>>  Can I respond to that?

LORI SOUZA:  Yeah, I think you did earlier.

GERARD DACHÉ:  Give me one minute because one of the ‑‑ let me tell you the story about one of the organizations that went through the assessment.

So, in fact, we have a listing of companies that have successfully gone through the assessment.  So, when they're assessed, they're listed on the directory of trusted blockchain solutions.

But rather than me tell you, let me let the President of that company tell you directly.  So, I'm going to share my screen and show you this guy.  All right.  Let's see.  So, let me just explain this right here is the President of ‑‑ can guys see my screen?  Yeah.  This guy here is a President of a company called Access and they work in the casino industry.  So, there's a lot of money laundering that happens in casinos.  So they built in an IoT that goes into the handle.  It writes the transaction too blockchain.  And this way the regulators can glow that it's fair, it's transparent, that there wasn't any money laundering going on.

So they came to us and said we want an assessment.  And it was amazing as we went through this, you know, o over a period of time, we exposed to them the vulnerabilities in their own system, right.  And so we delivered the findings.  Alejandro was there and some of these other folks.  But these were the words out of his mouth the minute we finished delivering the findings.  And thissans the question of what the value is.  So, let me just share his words.  It is about a minute and a half.

(video:)

LORI SOUZA:  Share the volume.

>>  Access being said for the team that has put this together, built the process, and walked Access through this, it is nothing short of incredibly impressive.

When Nick would come out to the meeting and he'd share what he learned, what he went through, it goes to show that there's oh, I'd say thousands of hours of accumulated work to get us to this point.  And probably the most important partied' like to say is I'm trying to hide my smiles and stuff, but I am rile, really proud of this.  This is an exciting moment.  Leadership is the front folks.  So, the fact that, Gerard, we were able to get access through this with your team is a great way to get BA to the next step of ensuring that the world embraces this amazing certification.

So I'm very o proud of Access, but at the same time I'm equally as proud and thankful to the GBA team.

GERARD DACHÉ:  And so he is also the president of the international gaming standards association.  One of the things he wants to do is because of the challenges in the gaming industry, he wants to take the BMM‑‑ well, first blockchain, because of all the problems it can solve and then BMM because it can verify that blockchain is solving problems, he wants to take that to the entire gaming industry.

So as we are encountering more and more organizations and they're going through the process what, the BMM does is it shines a spotlight on the problems so they can fix it.  And then the BMM teamworks with them collaboratively to help them fix it.  So, at the end of the day, we have better, more trusted blockchain solutions.  And that's what this panel is all about is how can these models be used to effectively get trusted blockchain solutions.

LORI SOUZA:  Great, thank you.

MODERATOR:  Mike, I believe he has a question for Dino.

>>  Mike:  I want to raise something that we really haven't talked about.  We are sitting here in UN IGF we have 190 countries represented here There's also a jurisdictional thing in this mold some.  Supplements we've done especially when it relates to privacy, people have different privacy laws in different countries.  Dino, I don't know if you found this such as GDBR and where the data is stored and where these individuals are located but I think it could be helpful to comment about this.  Because third‑party assessment has to be adaptable to different jurisdictions and different use cases around the world.

DINO CATALDO DELL'ACCIO:  Yes.  Through, Mike.  Indeed.  And again here this shows the flexibility of the model Tmodel does have a component, does have one of the 11 element that is exactly about compliance with rules, with regulation wapplicable standards that may vary country to country.

So in our case, as I mentioned before tunited Nations being international organisation, is not subject to a specific national legislation.  Nonetheless, within the privileges immunities tUN itself built a structure framework of policies, of procedure, of requirement that are represented by of course by the UN charter in terms of hierarchy of norms.  By the General Assembly resolution, by the Security Council decision, as well as at the administrative level by the Secretary General of bulletin and the administrative instruction that regulates and that applicable to all the operation of the united nation.

So in so doing, by addressing that specific element of the BMM, we refer to the applicable requirement and norms to demonstrate compliance within the UN system so that when the oversight bodies at united being the board of auditors, being the advisory committee, being the governing body will question whether, how and when we were in compliance with the UN rules and regulation, we were able to demonstrate it.  Indeed it was a discrete step in the process that they require us to check, certify and confirm that the mechanism tcontrol that have been put in place were in alignment with those norms.

MODERATOR:  I'd like to compliment at this point just by adding a couple of important considerations.

Normally the UN does not make any reference to local laws, first because it's an intergovernmental organisation that has 193 Member States.  But also because whenever there are Member States regulations that are referred to, those have substantive provisions that very often are relevant but also procedural provisions that involve enforcement actions and other administrative measures that the UN would not be able to comply with because of the inviability of its assets in accordance with UN charter but also the 1946 convention on privileges and immunities and the 1947 convention on privileges and immunities.

However, as Dino correctly pointed out, it is important for the UN to take into account national requirements when advising its policies and procedures because of the standards that are put in place.  And.

And that's why the BMM is so important, because would bees you have a high‑level standard at the UN but also other governmental organizations and private institutions, NonGovernmental Organizations, the entire community can reach, then you have an important standard that is also relevant when funding sources entrust funds to the UN.

So, for instance, even in cases where it can be reference to local legislation, donors such as the European commission will carry out pillar assessments and other kinds of satisfiesments before transferring any funds to institutions.  That, you know, could potentially expose them to substantial risk.

So I hope this qualifies the query that you had.

I think we are close to wrapping up.  I wanted to ask for final remarks from those who are here in Kyoto but also from the colleagues online.

And I personally wanted to conclude just to say that I've heard many ways, you know, to describe the model today, but certainly the one that I personally like the best was the game changer reference.  And I would like to also highlight a very important Fung, which is how the system ensures that the sustain able development goals can be reached.

And so I'd like to have some thoughts about it from the team here.

And also I would like to ask if people in the room here have any questions.  Dino, why don't you give us some thoughts on the intersection between the model and the achievement of the Sustainable Development Goals.

DINO CATALDO DELL'ACCIO:  So, well, one, of course, is the term identified sustainability.  So, what we have discovered, what we were able demonstrate, for example, in the specific case of the United Nations pension fund is that by digitalizing a manual process using blockchain technology as well as biometric as I explain it before, we have been able to cut substantially a lot of manual processes, a lot of paper‑based processes, a lot of scanning tasks that were previously conducted.  And found along with archiving.

So, because of the manual support of a process that for 70 years ran and asked people to sign a piece of paper, 84,000 people, return that piece of paper to the UN pension fund, the organisation had to equip itself with a system of verification, of validation, of archiving.

So by just introducing this technology, we are substantially cut the amount of energy, the amount of space, the amount of labour that was involved in this process.  And definitely, I think, demonstrated with tangible results that this is a sustainable solution.

>>  Eugene: ‑‑

GERARD DACHÉ:  I can share one other and that is the concept, I don't know if SDG 16 or 17 but the one that you talking about strong institutions.  I think it's peace, justice and strong institutions.

You know, the BMM didn't just kind of come out of thin air.  It actually was developed from who we are as an organisation and what those things that are important to us.

And to give you an example.  When we started the Government Blockchain Association, the very first thing we wrote and the most important thing on our website is our Ethics statement.  And I'm going to go ahead and just share my screen and just tell you what this is because this really is the underlying foundation of where the BMM came from.

It says the GBA commits to reflecting various viewpoints and positions from many perspective among its members.  Yet technology like an inandy Matt object is neutral regarding human motivations, therefore the following tenets will guide GBA leadership and its members as we engage with public policymakers, industry thereiners and citizens at large.  These were numbered.  But I'm just going to number them.

One, technology is a resource and can and should be globally used on behalf of all sill designs.

Two the result of use of technology such as blockchain technology and related innovations strive to improve the quality of life for all citizens.

Three, governments, government employees Annaliese laws are instituted by citizens and nations to serve and protect, not suppress or hinder the free and posestive pursuit of the governed.

Four, the inalienable rights and dignities enjoyed by citizens shall not be unduely suppressed by the authority of governments as they carry out their mandated role and responsibility.

And, finally, GBA will only pursue goals that serve to form a more perfect union between and among governments and the citizens they serve We have do this by establishing justice, ensuring common defense of citizens rights and well fares and securing the bless of liberty in a free society.

And those are the tenets that were the foundation that blockchain was built on top of, that the blockchain maturity model was built on top.

So if we go to look at what the SDGs are and where they connect, this is very various to what the United Nations is looking to pursue, right.  It's real buy establishing long lasting peace.

And I believe very firmly that what we're attempting to do really lies with all the SDGs because all of those SDGs in part connect to the mission of the GBA and the UN.  And I think the blockchain technology is enabling technology that allows us to build those strong institutions.  So, that's how I think that they can act.

MODERATOR:  Thank you, Gerard.  We have a question from a gentleman in this room.

GERARD DACHÉ:  Sure.

MODERATOR:  Would you mind introducing yourself.

>>  Yes, please.  Good morning.  My name is Ahem sang way and I am a Member of Parliament from Malawi but also most importantly I'm a member of the African parliamentary network on Internet Governance.

Sitting in here as I get question very much interested but also enlightened by the presenters on the subject of the blockchain.  And also my view and understanding on the matter has also been broadened, get me to see that coming from the public sector and being able to understand how blockchain could enhance public sector reforms in service delivery and notwithstanding the attainment of the SDGs by the UN.

What was most fascinating is as presented by Dino the use case in terms of pension fund management.  I'm also mindful of the various social protection programmes that Member States of the UN are involved in in their respective countries.  And one of the critical issues that they come across with this, the positive identification of the beneficiaries.  And Dino said it's difficult to prove a negative.

So it was quite very, very enlightening.  And the point I want to raise as a law maker, there are serious gains to be made if countries were going to adopt this kind of technology.  But, you know, the issues of mistrust, but I think Shawna did also lay off those fears that blockchain does offer the platform that is ‑‑ can be trusted.  It provides trustability and also is transparent.

But these are tissues that have not been communicated to the governments so governments can start transitioning into digitalization transformation.

As a law maker, I represent the sector is over here, would appreciate to have some kind of working relationship because some of these issues eventually they will have to be translated into legislation.  Policy enactment or legislation enactment that would track the adoption of this kind of technologies.

At the same time another question going to the United Nations.  We are talking about a deficit of 2.6 billion people that are not connected.  But at the same time, we've made a decision that digitalization and the Internet Governance and the information technology is the way to go.  We are not going back.

It would be appreciated if the issues of the SDGs could also be supported in terms of encouraging countries to enact policies that are going to utilize blockchain as an accelerator to as an attainment of those goals.

So I don't know whether this is something you would consider as UN, as parliamentarians or would be simply waiting to enact laws.  But we need to have some capacity areas that should be improved upon.  As I said through the APNIC to which I am a member.  It's quite enlightening and thank you so much for allowing us to get crashed into this very important session.  Thank you.

>>  There's a very easy comment to make.

GERARD DACHÉ:  Let Amelia handle this because she is a law maker.

>>  We don't have time.  Gerard, we reached the end of our time.  The allotted time.  So, let's please allow people to ask the question, at least we all hear the question.  Then maybe we take it offline because it's 11:15.  It's the end of our session.

AMELIA GARDNER:  Yeah if one of you guys can give him my contact information.  We can show him the legislation.  Dean we will.  One more question.

>>  Associate professor at Syracuse University I'm here now inviting you all to join my class at 6:30 a.m. to hear about a sustainable development blockchain my students are building for the U.S. Department of Agriculture.  But that's an aside we can take that offline.  My question is I've heard a lot of Government Blockchain Association.  I applaud the work being done but there's also research, industry, you're in this multistakeholder Forum.  What about the rest of the world?  What's the interface between the rest of the world and the Government Blockchain Association?

>>  That's an easy answer.  Go to ‑‑ and we will develop.  Everybody is welcome.

>>  Ill use half a second because blockchain is still very much associated with cryptocurrency.  I don't know how you're going to break that and get it off the minds of the people.

And of course when you talk about cryptocurrency we know people who have lost their money through that.  So I don't know what you're going to do to ensure that you break that, you know, association of blockchain with crip cotow currency and mistrust.

>>  Very quickly we are over time.  So, apologies to the coordinators of the room if you allow us to just one minute.

>>  My name is Sarah oh peened a Member of Parliament of Uganda.

>>  Thank you everybody for participating both in person as well as online.  Very quickly.  The name Government Blockchain Association definitely refer to government but also is intended for all citizens and all entities to work with government for the government.

So it's not limited to government.  Actually, entities, Private Sector, really the multistakeholder philosophy approach of the IGF it's mirrored in the GBA.  It's open to all representatives or all sector of industry, Civil Society, academia and NGOs.

In terms of breaking that association blockchain and cryptocurrency.  There are over 50 Working Groups in the GBA that address way over the use case of cryptocurrency.  As alluded to before, we have Working Group on digital identity, Working Group on digital asset, Working Groups on the supply chain, health care, artificial intelligence, voting in election.

So, really, we go very well beyond that.  And the point is to really training and awareness.  There are two conferences, one usually takes place at the end of September/October and one in May that really have a wide variety of topics that are discussed and presented by practitioners and representatives from the multistakeholder community.

Thank you very much.  We can definitely continue this conversation both offline, in person as online.  Thank you.